Curse

Zorgy · Sep 08, 2008, 01:23 PM // 13:23

This applies to regular/solo PC games only !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We the Gamers of the world, in order to ensure a more enjoyable experience, establish equality between players and publishers, and promote the general welfare of our industry hereby call for the following:

1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund.

2. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.

3. Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release.

4. Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.

5. Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will adequately play on that computer.

6. Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won't install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their express consent.

7. Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.

8. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.

9. Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.

10. Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.

Source:
http://www.edge-online.com/blogs/the-gamers-bill-rights

Your comments would be highly appreciated.

kazi_saki · Sep 08, 2008, 01:43 PM // 13:43

the 2nd right still feels like its up to the company and we don't have a right to demand that they not release junk.
In the 3rd right, I don't think we shouldexpect updates unless its to patch broken/compatibility issues.
The sixth right should be the first

And the seventh is great too.
Right# 9 kind of sounds like a troll for GW

Hell ya for right #10!!!

Yang Whirlwind · Sep 08, 2008, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorgy

1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund.

Only if the computer in question meet the specs specified for the game in question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorgy

3. Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release.

You buy the game,- not the updates! You cannot expect anything!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorgy

5. Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will adequately play on that computer.

Depends on the definition of "adequate", don't expect smooth runnings if you only meet the minimum specs. - that's why the other specs are called recommended.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorgy

7. Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.

Why? You get a CD/DVD with the game and you are allowed to make a safety backup of that for your own use! Anything else is an illegal clone!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorgy

8. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.

What are we talking about here? Counter measures against illegal copies ... how dare they protect their product!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorgy

9. Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.

If that is how the product is made, that is what you live with! Otherwise: don't buy it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorgy

10. Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.

If that is how the product is made, that is what you live with! Otherwise: don't buy it!

The companies make the products, if you don't like how they did it: don't buy it. If enough people choose not to buy it, the company will have to close or change the way they make their products. That is the power of the consumers.
The power of the companies is, that they don't have to listen to any of your demands. They only have to listen to profit margins!

DarkNecrid · Sep 08, 2008, 04:02 PM // 16:02

I'd say something here but the above user basically said everything that needed to be said.

Very smart post up above.

enxa · Sep 08, 2008, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund.

How can the store believe you when you say it doesnt work? Would you need to bring your PC to the store?

Quote:

3. Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release.

Define meaningful. If it is technical updates because 2. isnt met and game is released 'unfinished', than its ok. Otherwise its up to the developer/publisher.

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5. Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will adequately play on that computer.

In most cases they do, although defining minimum requirements precisely is hard, there is a huge ammount of hardware out there, and while the game may work good with one 2ghz proccessor, it may not work well with the other 2ghz processor, depending on the model, manufacturer, its internal cache, or the motherboard it is on and such stuff, so defining the precise details for every hardware component would confuse customers. If your PC is right there along the minimum requirements, you should expect it to work, but dont completly rule out the possibility that it may not.

Quote:

7. Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.

I kinda dont see the point of this. Whats the problem with downloading a patch?

I agree with the rest.

PS when i said 'you' a few times i meant 'we'

Winterclaw · Sep 08, 2008, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Instead of forcing a set of laws on companies, how about you just stop buying games until the publishers and retailers improve. If you don't like the way people deal with you, you don't have to deal with them.

zwei2stein · Sep 08, 2008, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Instead of forcing a set of laws on companies, how about you just stop buying games until the publishers and retailers improve. If you don't like the way people deal with you, you don't have to deal with them.

They are not forcing some law. This is sensible manual how in increase customer satisfaction.

Nothing beats voting with wallet AND presenting nice bullet list of reasons.

Otherwise execs. might think that game didn't sell for, i.e. lack of tits or because it does not have support for EPEEN MX 2.0 technology.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yang Whirlwind

What are we talking about here? Counter measures against illegal copies ... how dare they protect their product!

It is more like countermeasures against people buying legal copies. All it achieved is to irritate customers while pirates feel none of pain. Anti-pirate stuff never stopped them.

It is really shame when you have to get crack for your legal copy of game just to be playable or when it trashes your OS.

And if you are getting crack, why not just download whole thing anyway? Its more user friendly.

Zorgy · Sep 08, 2008, 07:23 PM // 19:23

"....Instead of forcing a set of laws on companies, how about you just stop buying games until the publishers and retailers improve. If you don't like the way people deal with you, you don't have to deal with them...."

"...This isn't something terribly new to gaming in general--consoles already have a similar standards system. Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo, certify console games and tell developers what they can and cannot do. But on the PC we don't have anything like that. Of course, we do have Games for Windows, but it's not quite the same as what we're doing here. (Actually, I'd love it if Games for Windows or the PC Gaming Alliance adopted these Rights.)..."

http://www.edge-online.com/blogs/the-gamers-bill-rights

Divinitys Creature · Sep 08, 2008, 07:41 PM // 19:41

/s i g n e d

a guy · Sep 09, 2008, 01:26 AM // 01:26

I think this is a call out for a universal license (like creative commons) or seal of approval. 1, 3, 7, 5, and maybe 2 and 10 would not belong tho. If this a call for government interference, why should the government be involved in entertainment?

jiggles · Sep 09, 2008, 09:37 PM // 21:37

rule 4 is RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing retarded. How do you expect to play an online game with other players, doing the same thing. If you dont have the same version of the game?

Zahr Dalsk · Sep 10, 2008, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Old announcement is old.

Also, rule 5 fails because minimum system requirements means just that - minimum requirements for the program to actually open on your computer, and nothing more than that.

some guy · Sep 10, 2008, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Wow i would personally go kill whoever wrote this crap.

Seriously you are retarded if you want this stuff to happen.

Judging by the stuff, I would say the majority that agree to this shit pirate games also.

Zorgy · Sep 11, 2008, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Gwguru forumers don't seem to be involved in their rights as gamers.......sad...they prefer to chat about the ups & downs of ecto price or the last VS farm build.....always ig$ LOL

http://reclaimyourgame.com/

Yang Whirlwind · Sep 11, 2008, 12:47 AM // 00:47

What rights? The only right you have is choosing not to buy the game if you do not like how it's set up!

Zorgy · Sep 11, 2008, 01:06 AM // 01:06

"...What rights? The only right you have is choosing not to buy the game if you do not like how it's set up!..." Yes till now but it will change dude lol

I & many others want to reclaim our right to play the games we want without interference, without destructive software, and without having to pay for the privilege with all the limitations the game industry wants to put on us, such as the 3 activations limit. It isn't fair, it isn't right.

Don't let the game companies treat us like pirates, speak up and back at them.

I always buy my games

some guy · Sep 11, 2008, 01:32 AM // 01:32

You can't blame them for doing it because it's hurting the industry like mad. Don't give me the Crysis sold 1.5 million bullshit.

Think of the developers, do they want their hard work pirated.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

That's why you fail.

Let me destroy you some more

1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund.
How the hell do they know you just installed the game, took the CD key, and say it doesn't work. Do you have to bring your PC there? If you bring your PC there, how do they know you haven't done any tampering. A lot of people (before this rule is enforced) just took their games, and cracked it, took a legitimate CD key and returned the game for a full refund. You think that's how you want it?

2. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.
Hard to do. Since most developers are under pressure from publishers. A lengthy game can cause a publisher a lot of money. They either have to have a high budget or a developer that is willing to give them time. (Take 2 Interactive)

3. Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release.
Like Yang said, you buy the game not the updates. You made the choice to fork over 59.99 to a game that you have no idea or limited idea from reviews to buy.

4. Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.
How do I play Guild Wars? You can't play without the updates DUH!!!!

5. Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will adequately play on that computer.
Minimal requirement is what you can play on the lowest graphical setting without much problem. That's a no brainer, if you can't figure that out, wow no comment.

6. Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won't install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their express consent.
Orly, where.

7. Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.
Bad idea, end of story.

8. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.
You can't blame them when the industry is hurting (I didn't say dying, so PC noobs can't flame me. You got to admit the platform is hurting)

9. Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.
That I can see.

10. Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.
Give to friend, play for free?

Zorgy · Sep 11, 2008, 02:20 AM // 02:20

"...Let me destroy you some more..." LOL

Why are you so aggressive dude ? LOL

Do you lack GvG or is your Dad into game industry? cool man

relax......

"...Think of the developers, do they want their hard work pirated..."

Games are pirated before they are released LOL and the honest gamers like me have to suffer from their "malware"

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Don't let the game companies treat us like pirates, speak up and back at them.

Sins Of A Solar Empire has no destructive software & just reached 500k copies sold........

"...This isn't something terribly new to gaming in general--consoles already have a similar standards system. Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo, certify console games and tell developers what they can and cannot do. But on the PC we don't have anything like that. Of course, we do have Games for Windows, but it's not quite the same as what we're doing here. (Actually, I'd love it if Games for Windows or the PC Gaming Alliance adopted these Rights.)..."

PS/ I am speaking here of regular/solo PC games & not MMOS which are different !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Zorgy · Sep 11, 2008, 03:55 AM // 03:55

I have to post this from an EA forum because it is so close to how I feel.

> I'm a 41 year old gamer who has bought numerous
> titles from Electronic Arts all the way back to the
> original Archon on the Commodore Amiga back
> when EA was just a small company run by Trip Hawkins.
> That was back in 1982 and I was 15 at the time. In
> the 26 years since I've spent countless thousands of
> dollars on EA games for the Amiga, PC, and various
> consoles. I've watched over the years as the copy
> protection became more and more intrusive while doing
> nothing to actually stop the pirates, but the games
> were good and the copy protection not much more than
> an annoyance so I spent the money and enjoyed myself.
> It's safe to say that I'm a long-standing fan of EA
> and many of the titles they've put out. Red
> Alert and its sequel remain two of my all-time
> favorite RTS games and I was eagerly looking forward
> to playing the latest installment when it is
> released.
>
> Electronic Arts, however, has decided to reward my
> (literally) decades-long loyalty by making use of one
> of the more problematic DRM systems available. These
> days I make my living as a PC support specialist and
> there are various legitimate programs, such as
> Process Explorer, which may or may not run properly
> if I have SecuROM installed on my systems. SecuROM
> said this was an attempt to stop people from hacking
> their DRM system, but considering that Spore
> was cracked and on the Bittorrent sites almost a
> week before its release it doesn't seem to be
> stopping the hackers. In fact the only people being
> inconvenienced by this DRM system are legitimate
> customers who have paid for the software. You've
> already admitted that even if it works fine without
> conflict for the vast majority of your customers
> there's still likely to be a subsection who run into
> problems. I believe you called that "Life Happens" in
> your original post. What a great attitude to take
> with your paying customers. It was enough to get me
> to take the time to register an account just so I
> could let you know how I feel about it.
>
> I'm done being treated like a criminal in order to
> use the software I've paid for. I did not purchase
> Bioshock despite being a fan of the original
> System Shocks because of SecuROM, I did not
> purchase Mass Effect for the same reason, I
> also haven't purchase Spore in spite of
> following its development since its announcement, and
> I won't be purchasing Red Alert 3 for the same
> reasons. I don't care how many copies you allow me to
> install before I need to call your support line. I'm
> testing software and OS installs all the time which
> means I'm restaging my PC on a regular basis which
> means it won't be long before I have to start calling
> and explaining why I need a 5th, 6th, 7th... 20th
> reinstall to some poor sap on the phone. Meanwhile
> Joe Pirate Boy is able to enjoy his copy as much as
> he wants and reinstall it as much as he wants without
> having to call anyone.
>
> There are three of us in my family who were dieing to
> play Spore so much so that we would've spent
> $150 for three copies of the game just so we wouldn't
> have to wait for one person to stop playing before
> someone else could start, but now its not going to
> happen. I still play my copy of Red Alert 2
> some eight years after it was released and it still
> installs just fine without any need for an Internet
> connection or calling someone up on the phone. Will I
> be able to do that with Red Alert 3 in 8
> years? Will you still have registration servers
> running for it and someone sitting by a phone ready
> to grant me my 130th install? Will you release a
> patch at some point that removes the DRM so that
> nonsense won't be necessary?
>
> In summary: Explain to me why I should spend $50 just
> so I can be treated like a criminal?

zwei2stein · Sep 11, 2008, 09:14 AM // 09:14

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